What to do with the 4-wire O2 after installing wideband?

ECU, Wiring, Sensors
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What to do with the 4-wire O2 after installing wideband?

By teal_dx
- Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:44 pm #95984 If I were to buy a wideband o2 sensor/bauge such as the AEM:
https://www.upscaleautomotive.com/p-127 ... gauge.aspx

And install it in one of the extra bungs in my Downpipe, what would I do with the stock 4 wire o2 sensor that the ECU uses?

Does the wideband get re-wired to the ECU, as well as to the gauge and ditch the stock 4-wire o2? Or do I use them both, the ecu runs on the 4-wire while the gauge monitors from the wideband?
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By d-mon
- Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:37 pm #96012 because wide bands have a realitvely short life (compared to the stock o2 sensor) they are usually used just for tuning the car.
if you have an exhaust with 2 o2 bungs, you can use the 'extra' bung for the wideband when tuning and put the plug back in when your done.
i know some people like to monitor their a/f constantly, but i believe this requires something like a Hondadata 600 setup.

teal_dx wrote: Or do I use them both, the ecu runs on the 4-wire while the gauge monitors from the wideband?

or this.
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By hondajunkee
- Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:00 pm #96024 P07 ECU's are wired for wideband, maybe use it and change the maps and vtec stuff for your car? :?
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By d-mon
- Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:53 pm #96106
teal_dx wrote:cool :thumb:
I didn't know if there was a way to integrate a wideband o2 into a chipped ecu (crome, ectune, neptune etc..)

i believe the high end HondaData stuff is the only way to integrate a wideband o2. i'm cheap and don't pay much attention the the expensive stuff. crome does a pretty good job...
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By hondajunkee
- Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:02 am #96111
teal_dx wrote:P07, is that from the VX? I have a chipped P28 already, I'll probably stick with that and the 4 wire and save some dough.


yep VX ECU
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By teal_dx
- Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:57 am #96127 Crome is what I have on my P28 right now, but reading that Neptune is better these days and ectune is better than both if you can find someone who knows how to tune it.

I still have a lot of research to do when choosing software...
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By colpitts
- Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:39 pm #97525
teal_dx wrote:Crome is what I have on my P28 right now, but reading that Neptune is better these days and ectune is better than both if you can find someone who knows how to tune it.

I still have a lot of research to do when choosing software...


i've been reading and reading on tuners/tuner software/stand alone systems and i've gotta say i'm totally lost. I have no idea what to run, where to go to get it, price, etc.

now reading that your thoughts are eCtune is top notch makes me happy because there is a tuner a half hour away that tunes with eCtune. I've got a virgin p28, i'll be inclined to use it instead of placing a Hondata or NepTune etc. chip in it or running a full stand-alone system. Although reading Hondata's features, i find that they offer the top stuff for the buck..

but still, im lost.

how does tuning work in essence anyways?

ecu is cracked and then as you make dyno pulls your set-up is tweaked to reach optimal running condition and then loaded in your ecu?..
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By suspendedHatch
- Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:22 pm #97548 I'm sorry but everyone is wrong.

I run that AEM UEGO on my daily driver. I ran it on my previous daily driver. Widebands may have been "short lived" a long long time ago, or perhaps it was a particular type of wideband and race fuel killed it quickly; but that statement simply isn't true. Widebands are more reliable than standard O2's.

Secondly, that AEM gauge type UEGO can be used on the stock ECU, it can be used on a standalone, or it can be used all by itself in a second bung while your OEM O2 is left stock.

To use it w/ a stock ECU you simply cut the O2 signal wire to the ECU and connect the AEM's white wire. Then you wire the AEM's ground and power and plug the sensor into the gauge harness. On the back of the gauge is a dial that you can turn with a jeweler's screwdriver. You want to set that to output a 0-1V signal to your stock ECU. It will still behave and display like a wideband, and it's much more accurate than the stock ECU, though unfortunately your stock ECU is not programmed to take full advantage of it.

I have a DIY of this on my causeforalarm site.

The only problem using it on the stock ECU is that it sometimes trips a CEL for O2. In my experience this happens when in DFCO for an extended period of time. The stock ECU expects to see a bouncing signal all the time. But the wideband will stay lean long enough to make the ECU think something is wrong. If I remember correctly (it's been a long time since I drove on a factory ECU), the CEL goes away by itself.

Thirdly. Cost? The AEM gauge UEGO goes for about $260 and can be used with an OEM P28 or other ECU with no modifications. The P07 several weeks ago was selling for $100. It MUST be used with a compatible O2, and those were going for over $200. Then there's the cost of chipping the ECU etc.

Lastly, only the FEDERAL P07 has an onboard wideband controller. The CA model uses a narrowband O2. You CANNOT use that AEM gauge type UEGO or any other UEGO that has it's own controller with the federal P07. And why would you? Why do you need two controllers?

You should download the instructions for that gauge on AEM's EMS forum. I have it on my comp, I could probably send it to you... all of AEM's instructions are included with the software install of the EMS.

Teal, if Ohio wasn't so far from Utah I'd drive out there and set you up. Maybe one day I should...
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By suspendedHatch
- Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:05 pm #97556 Teal, I think that link you gave is for the gauge only. You want the gauge/controller/O2. You can find the part number on AEM's site.
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By teal_dx
- Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:32 pm #97566 I wish I knew someone locally that was a genius when it came to this stuff. The good reputable tuners are in Columbus & Cinci, a pretty far drive away from me. There's a guy in Cinci that is great with ectune but that's the closest because it's still kind of new. There's a couple of people near Cleveland that supposedly can get me a decent street tune, then I would feel better about making the trip to Columbus. I'm a DIY kind of guy, but even if I 1. had a PC and 2. knew how to use the software, I'd still take it to a pro because I don't want to learn from trial & error on my engine/turbo setup I spent so much time and money on.
In the end I'll probably stick with Crome, Neptune or possibly eCtune because AEM & Hondata are out of my price range.
If you're ever in OH I would gladly pay you to help my get my car tuned :thumb:
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By hondajunkee
- Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:38 pm #97573 you should ask Sky (egerizoom) from ohio hondas he seems to know a ton about wide band O2 and using the 5 wire VX sensors
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By suspendedHatch
- Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:01 pm #97967 But why? AEM Gauge Type UEGO works with any stock ECU except the federal P07 and costs $260.

And if you just want to view the O2 and not connect the ECU to it, then you can have any exhaust shop put in a second bung and run it independently.

I've seen the inconsistencies with Crome, Neptune, Ectune, and similar type software that are based on the factory ECU. You're tuning the timing for peak torque and the power varies from one dyno pull to the next. Even if you don't even change the timing! It's especially scary when you suddenly get knock. None of these programs FULLY control the factory ECU. Tuning is very time consuming and costly and then you find out that you're chasing your tail.

The tuner (Scott Fox at Motiva) had my EMS at his shop for a few months before I got all the parts together for my current car. His favorite trick was to drop the AEM in his customers cars and show them the difference. In a couple of pulls he's able to get better, safer, and more consistent power. Less time tuning = more power, better driveability, for less cost. Of course this never convinced them. Honda owners don't have money for anything that's not JDM (hence the reason I stopped doing stealth alarms installs on Hondas).

AEM is coming out with version 2 of their EMS. Consequently, the prices on the current lineup have dropped quite a bit. Bisimoto has the 1040U (includes built in wideband) for $1350. If your car is close to stock/bolt ons, then the base map will get you up and running. An hour or two of dyno time is all you'll need.

http://bisimoto.net/store/index.php?mai ... 2_46_51_64

I wouldn't go so far to call myself a tuner. I had my EMS professionally tuned and I've only been tweaking the settings for better driveability. When I get money, I plan to take my car to CA and have bisi spend some time perfecting the timing.
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